A few weeks ago, I posed the below statement/question on various social media platforms and was stunned by the volume of responses. Many women replied on the platforms but many more contacted me privately. Most of them said: ‘Me too. I thought it was just me.’ For many of the women I detected some perplexing hint of shame. This is an enormous issue and one which can only be resolved by openly speaking about it.
This is what I posted:
“I am reading everything I can find about why women struggle with conversations about money – this seems to be generally true of women of all ages, cultures and personality types across most situations (money at work especially, money with a partner, money with friends).
Note: (I am not suggesting men never struggle with this issue, just that their struggle is less universal and seems to be more related to personality than gender.)
Most of the reading suggests a cultural aspect (e.g. traditionally it was distasteful for British folk of noble birth to mention money) or more often that it is confidence related. That women somehow doubt their worth and therefore find it hard to name a price for their services or ask for a raise. Another suggestion is that it is related to conflict avoidance.
I do not doubt my worth, do not lack confidence and am not particularly uncomfortable with conflict. Neither am I of noble British descent (German peasant vibes). And yet I find it distasteful to discuss money. I struggle to quote a figure for a service that my male colleagues will double without breaking a sweat. I have always hated discussing my salary.
I do not struggle to speak about money for other people (just me).
I am interested in your opinions, thoughts and questions, (especially if you are a woman younger or older than me or of a different race or culture.)”
These are some of my incomplete thoughts based on your feedback and lots more reading and thinking:
1. Culture, confidence, conflict avoidance and Power
In addition to the many thoughts and suggestions wrt culture, confidence and conflict, I had some other interesting responses and insights:
“I’m not an expert on this but I imagine it’s a combination of factors that are subjective and exacerbated by individual identity factors. White women in the US have only been able to independently maintain a bank account since 1974 and while that might not directly be a 1:1 correlation to a lack of confidence, it is certainly a macro indication of who is allowed to talk about and be in charge of money and who is not. I also think there is a dynamic at play that, covertly, implies that women should be thankful for whatever they get (a job, money etc) and not make a fuss (which is compounded for women of the global majority who experience the double bind of gender and racial expectations that discourage them from advocating on their own behalf.) I don’t have a simple answer here but I will say the easiest way to discern who benefits from something happening or not happening is to follow the power and trace it back to the source.’
2. Family responsibility and ‘disentitlement’
A lot of women said that in a work situation, because they are often required to request flexibility due to disproportionate child or elderly parent care obligations, and because this responsibility to care is viewed as an annoyance and time off is seen as the reluctant bestowing of a favor (by both male and female bosses), women are often left feeling grateful and apologetic and as a result very disempowered:
“No matter how good I am at my job, I can’t ask for more money when I am also having to ask for time off when my child is sick – I am constantly aware of this, always on the backfoot and needing to be sure I am not seen as taking more than I give.”
Although this aspect hadn’t occurred to me before this resonated deeply and is considered, extrapolated and labelled as part of what Terri Apter describes as a ‘disentitled mindset’ in her article Why Do Women Struggle to Ask for Better Pay? | Psychology Today I identified deeply with certain extracts from the article:
“The term “entitled” has pejorative assumptions about believing other people owe you something, without reflecting on whether you have earned it. But feeling “unentitled” suggests that you don’t demand, ask, or even accept benefits that you actually earned. Among the women participating in our research, this mindset was most likely to take hold during salary negotiations. Instead of putting their case forward, they were beset by questions, such as, “Is now the right time?” and, “Is my case watertight?” A fog seemed to descend on normally decisive and confident women. However strong they knew their case to be, they felt unsure. In other words, in a classic example of internalized bias, they saw themselves through the eyes of someone who demands derisively, “Who do you think you are?” (These exact words are an enormous trigger for me and cut me off at the knees. – KvK.)
Asking for a pay raise is, stereotypically, a gendered situation, with men thought to do it well and women not, with men generally feeling more comfortable than women in making a demand on their own behalf. Such biases, in most contexts, are toothless remnants of an ugly past. The women who participated in our study knew how to manage and deflect most stereotypes. But when there’s ambiguity and anxiety, low-lying biases are likely to be activated. Many of the women described asking for a pay raise as “finding your way in the dark.” They were not sure how much to ask for, or whether they should involve others as they made their case. Sometimes they did not know the range of possible outcomes and had no knowledge of what others had been granted. These are the conditions in which “internalized bias” switches on.
Unentitled mindset has another dimension, too. It is a response to the rigid template of the entitled worker as someone who can give everything to an employer and work all hours — someone who doesn’t carry the mental load of domestic and family organization. It arises from lower expectations of those who request flexible hours, or who leave the office at a pre-arranged time. In other words, if you don’t have someone like a wife as a personal partner, you are less likely to be seen as a leader and to become a full partner in your workplace. Witnessing these attitudes in a workplace could reinforce the unentitled mindset.” Wow!
3.Excessive and misplaced empathy and emotional rather than transactional connection
A number of women expressed that in quoting a price for their services or asking an employee for a raise, they were overcome with concern with regard to what the client/customer could actually afford – especially if the women knew that the client/customer needed the services. There was agreement that it felt easier to quote a reasonable price for luxuries (eg beauty treatments and products) than for services or products perceived as ‘necessities’. It seems that it is not uncommon for women to be overcome by a misplaced and excessive ‘empathy’ for the customer/client in certain situations.
This seems to be especially true of women who have their own businesses providing ‘care’ services (therapy, medical or legal services) particularly when there is no admin/front of house person to handle the money discussion.
“I think it’s somehow tied into the fact that women are more community minded. We have more empathy and sympathy for the collective as opposed to only thinking of ourselves. So, we instinctively go to – how does this – the thing I am asking for – impact the people around me. Hence, we give away our services, time, things as a way to care for the group. I think this probably goes right back to gatherer era. It’s complex isn’t it? And interesting.”
I find it incredibly difficult to talk about and negotiate my monetary value / worth. Sounds like I have a similar issue to you and I’m quite a bit older. It’s not self-confidence nor ego related … a wanting to share, please and create emotional rather than transactional connections?
4. Women are reluctant to ask for anything (not just money)
It seems that it’s not just asking for money that we suck at, it’s asking for anything. Apparently four out of five women find it ‘extremely difficult’ to express concerns and make clear, concise and straightforward requests of any sort to anyone. I can vouch for this. Many responders indicated that they were socialised to ‘never be a bother.’
Many women I know were admonished as girls for behaving in ways that might have been perceived as self-serving. If we were not actually ordered to be sacrificial, or praised for being selfless, then our mothers modelled this behaviour to us. Many of us were schooled from the earliest age in the art of never being an imposition or a bother.
Don’t be forceful or greedy or difficult. Focus on doing a good job and be nice. Wait your turn. No one likes a pushy person (woman).
In the general eagerness of my generation of women not to be seen as pushy or selfish we equate making any request for ourselves with being demanding or difficult.
Aesha Adams Roberts in her article about women and money says the following:
“Linda Babcock, co-author of the book Women Don’t Ask: Negotiation and The Gender Divide, who studied the pay gap between the starting salaries of male & female Master’s Degree graduates from Carnegie Mellon. Men on average got $4,000 more than the women. She discovered the difference was based on who asked for more money at the negotiating table. Only 7% of the women negotiated their salary, while 57% of the men asked for more than what they were offered.
“Women often worry more than men about the impact their actions will have on their relationships,” Babcock and Sara Laschever wrote. “This can prompt them to change their behavior to protect personal connections…sometimes simply by trying to be more deserving of what they want (say by working harder) so they’ll be given what they want without asking.”
It seems that we also often assume our work should speak for itself, but it turns out, we are supposed to ask.
Dr Margie Warrell in her article entitled ‘Women: Own Your Worth and Dare To Ask’ has this to say:
“Opportunities rarely go to the busiest worker bees, highest IQs or most selfless martyrs. They go to those who advocate for them. The fact that men tend to rate their value higher is not their fault. It just points to the importance of being extra attentive not to allow our gendered social conditioning dictate the value we place on ourselves or how much (or little) we settle for.”
5. We want other people to anticipate our needs and give us what we deserve without having to ask
Dr Warrell goes on to say:
“One of the many feminine strengths is our intuition and sensitivity to the people we work and live with. However, sometimes we mistakenly assume these people are as attuned to our thoughts and feelings as we are to theirs. Not so. Whether it’s getting something you want or changing something you don’t want, you have to take full ownership for ensuring others know as much.”
Basically, you get what you tolerate!
Violating the accepted gender norms puts you at risk of folk thinking you are difficult or demanding. You also run the risk of not getting what you want. But at least you know where you stand, and you’ve empowered yourself by refusing to be passive. Afterall, complaining is just a passive way of asking for what you want, and whining is worse than being pushy or difficult (in my book anyway!)
If you don’t get the outcome you want, don’t over personalize it or interpret it as a reflection of your worth. Listen for feedback (so you’re more likely to get a yes next time) and move on armed with knowledge and confidence.
What needs to be done?
When I left my last corporate job, I was being paid so dramatically below the minimum salary level for my qualification and experience category that the HR person handling my exit process asked me sympathetically if I was a ‘non-performer’ (the lowest performance category possible). I was in fact a top achiever. There are a myriad of reasons why we are still unable to ask for what we are worth, but we are obligated to work at it. Not just for our own sakes but for the good of humanity. For the sake of all the single mom’s trying to make ends meet. For the sake of our daughters and our sons. (Noone is trying to take anything from men in this discussion – it is in everybody’s interests that we should all matter equally).
The gender pay gap is alive and well in 2024 and is not going away in our lifetime or even that of our daughters unless we address it. And by addressing it, I mean calmly, confidently and knowledgeably asking for what we are worth. Currently the gender pay gap in South Africa is approx. 17%. and showing no sign of closing.
- This is another ‘me too’ example– we all struggle to ask for what we are worth. It’s not just you. Draw strength from knowing you are not alone or uniquely useless wrt this skill.
- Before you negotiate, do your homework. Be prepared. Do the research, ask the right questions, gather the information, do some benchmarking. Speak to your colleagues, share information.
- Remind yourself of your worth and collect testimonials and feedback.
- Update your CV (I am often startled by my own accomplishments!)
- Consider getting some coaching/mentoring/therapy to help address your reticence.
- Role play and practice asking
- Start support groups with woman friends and colleagues
- Understand that you may not be unfairly discriminated against on the basis of your family responsibility obligations and that you should not be apologetic about these obligations, especially with increased remote working options. But also advocate to split those obligations fairly with your partner or your siblings if you both work.
- If you are a manager be aware of this, be an ally, work to close the gaps without being asked!